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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 05:37:26 -
[1] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Jagd Wilde wrote:Nick Bete wrote:Nice attitude Jagd. This is why this game's community has such a horrible(and deserved) reputation.
Blah blah blah. Why do you carebears even play this game? ^^^ Cos I'm proper 'ard, innit. Folk pay their money and takes their pick. Deal with it.
Yes and no.
Threads like this express a view that some players want to play how they choose; but others shouldn't have that same luxury.
Freedom to choose how I play, means I also need to respect how you or someone else plays.
It's not really fair for me to ask for 100% safe area so I can be left alone in peace, because there are others that like to interact through pvp with everyone.
The current approach is really the most fair approach there is.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 05:52:43 -
[2] - Quote
Xander Jade wrote:well not really, but you still can declare war, or come in through a wormhole... you could even start making stable wormholes, with real blackmarket stations.. lots of things you could do, i want it more realistic ...
What is more realistic 20,000 years in the future, in a galaxy where we are immortal superhumans who fly spaceships?
Realistic is a smoke screen, since there is no such thing. What you want is a game that more suits your individual desires.
There's nothing wrong with putting your view of course, but it isn't realism you are asking for. It's just changes that suit you.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 06:08:36 -
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Xander Jade wrote:no, fantasy is best when you have something approaching realism... take away the pilot and make a realistic world than add the fantasy.
Ok, so in trying to engage seriously on this, even though I have a very different view; it seems that in your OP, you have picked out bits that you think are realistic in the current mechanics, while proposing changes to mechanics that you don't like.
For example, it's absolutely arbitrary that at some point early on in the game design of Eve, CCP chose to include standings. There's nothing realistic about them, anymore than any other mechanic. It's just a game function CCP decided to include.
However, your OP picks that out as though there is some realism tied to how standings mean something with the empires.
To me, it's just a game mechanic like all game mechanics. It isn't realism as we don't realistically know at all how this would work out in such a dystopian environment about 50,000 generations of humans into the future.
It's what I can't see. You are only seeing realism in the mechanics that personally benefit you and wanting changes made to mechanics that don't benefit you.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 10:00:45 -
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Xander Jade wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:The whle point of EVE is to be a sandbox where you can build sandcastles and kick other people's sandcastles over, beat them up and take their bucket and shovel.
I am not sure what problem you are trying to solve, OP, but your proposed solution doesn't solve it.
Relying on faction police to keep you safe is a serious case of self deception. The gankers will start multiple characters, balance their standings, and find other ways to work around your proposed security system.
As it stands the best thing you can do is manage your risk: don't carry more than a billion ISK worth in a freighter. Tank your freighter. Do not autopilot through Uedama. Scout with another ship, if you see flashy skulls in local or Machariels parked on the gates, do not pass through the system.
You can move your trading to lower bulk items which can be safely transported in cloaky ships like blockade runners or exploration frigates. You can offload your hauling to contractors who take the risks while providing you with collateral.
Figure out what the problem is you are trying to solve, then find ways of handling it. Everyone else is playing by the same rules; if they can do things that you can't, the chances are that you are doing it wrong. ok, so take the aspect of governments, if you go outside, and torch a car in front of police, and get away, but they know who you are, they start impounding your stuff .. you flee the country so you won't be caught ... that is a consequence ... in eve you have no consequence because there is low to no standard, I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying there needs to be a consequence. it needs to be more difficult, not something that a day one noob toon can do, .. if i was an empire that owned systems with gates i would make it so i could stop people i did not like ... criminals ... from comping within my borders, the tech is there but unused,
It's a game, not real life. You can personally desire greater safety for you and more consequence for people who play different to you, but CCP have to consider all play styles that they want to allow.
In relation to what would happen IRL for criminal acts, it's irrelevant. Nothing we do in the game has any real value. It's all just entertainment and totally fictitious. When someone shoots a ship in game, they aren't torching someone's car. Nor is anything we do in RL anything like the society that exists in New Eden. RL and Eve are not comparable.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 10:10:04 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:Yes but by the same token it must follow some kind of logic. EvE many times has been called the wild west of space. Criminals should be dead or alive and the cops should be trying to gun them down and help anyone else that is trying too.
Doesn't matter what we as player think they should be. Should be this. Should be that.
The only thing that matters is what is defined by CCP.
The whole notion that it should be somehow different at its root comes back to comparisons to how things are in our society and a kind of expectation that the standards we live by should apply to New Eden.
Well if you go back just 4-5 generations in our real societies, the treatment of people and attitudes towards certain acts was very different. Go back 10 generations and it's very different again.
So we see huge shifts in what is ok, even just within a few generations, so trying to apply current standards to 50,000 generations into the future is completely arbitrary. It's nothing but personal opinion; and personal opinion is fine. It just doesn't mean it is 'realistic', or what 'should' be.
We are all entitled to our different opinions, just not the ability to say that what we think is realistic.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 10:42:15 -
[6] - Quote
Mark Marconi wrote: As I said it needs to make some logical sense and at the moment it does not.
I guess thankfully for my view, there is a company of about 600 employees (across all their games and locations), with the bulk working on Eve Online and they thankfully see some logic in how they design the game.
Hopefully they continue the same path where we all have choice and where if I want to affect you (or vice versa), then it's up to me to personally do it and not rely on CCP to save my behind.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 11:00:28 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:If they continue down the same path as the last 5 years they have 3 years tops.
 yeah sure.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 12:02:22 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:If they continue down the same path as the last 5 years they have 3 years tops. yeah sure. No they are bringing out free to play because they are doing so well.
Where is the reason published as to why? All I see in your statement is an assumption.
That's as useless as claiming there is only 3 years tops left in the game of CCP continue as they are, unless of course CCP change the game how you think it should be. Only that can save Eve.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 19:24:09 -
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Tiberius NoVegas wrote:CCP's financial statements are a matter of public record (if you understand the language), after review the consensus is is pretty much that CCP peaked its revenue back in 2013 and its been on the decline sense then. however CCP has shown increases in net profit despite the loss of revenue. CCP may be losing players but they know how to balance a budget, now if only they could balance the game.
Yes the financial statements of CCP are well known and they've been analysed pretty well by several players. That isn't an answer to the question asked though.
Mark Marconi wrote: did not say if they change it to how I wish it to be. I said if they carry on as they have been
I'm sure you would wish, that if CCP were to change from their current roadmap and philosophy for the game, that they go in some other direction you disagree with.
Not at all in the direction that you personally think is the right way to 'save' the game.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.10.30 20:20:15 -
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Tiberius NoVegas wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Tiberius NoVegas wrote:CCP's financial statements are a matter of public record (if you understand the language), after review the consensus is is pretty much that CCP peaked its revenue back in 2013 and its been on the decline sense then. however CCP has shown increases in net profit despite the loss of revenue. CCP may be losing players but they know how to balance a budget, now if only they could balance the game. Yes the financial statements of CCP are well known and they've been analysed pretty well by several players. That isn't an answer to the question asked though. My point is CCP is more then likely going to be around for longer then the next 3 years.
Ah ok. I agree, though to be fair to Mark, he did say Eve has 3 years tops. Not CCP itself.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.03 10:22:24 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:Australian Excellence wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Any thing over 300 mill will cover the gank cost, so a 1.8 billion freighter to carry no more than 300 mill. As I said it makes them useless. Ok people who carry billions are idiots but at the moment ganking a freighter is so cheap its stupid. So what, you want us to waste 10+ talos to kill an antitanked freighter every time? Let's be real here, you want no risk hauling. Deflecting the burden on the supposed ease in ganking is a lazy argument miner, there is no limit to how dumb you could take it. You going to start assuming every gank fleet has 100 pilots flying T1 cats and complaining about how it's costing under 200mil to kill full tanked freighters next? You'll find there is only 3-4 groups that actually field enough pilots to kill proper tanked freighters with only cats. Go play WoW if you want an always safe game. Look Carebear, it is the lack of risk to the ganker that is the problem. There is no profit to be made in hunting them. Now I know you don't want the possibility of someone ganking you for profit but really if you want a safe hi-sec maybe you should go play WOW.
Luckily, CCP have a different view. Not perfect always, but at least they acknowledge the value that ganking brings to the game and seem comfortable with the current level of risk that it brings to hauling and mining.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.03 10:31:28 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Australian Excellence wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Any thing over 300 mill will cover the gank cost, so a 1.8 billion freighter to carry no more than 300 mill. As I said it makes them useless. Ok people who carry billions are idiots but at the moment ganking a freighter is so cheap its stupid. So what, you want us to waste 10+ talos to kill an antitanked freighter every time? Let's be real here, you want no risk hauling. Deflecting the burden on the supposed ease in ganking is a lazy argument miner, there is no limit to how dumb you could take it. You going to start assuming every gank fleet has 100 pilots flying T1 cats and complaining about how it's costing under 200mil to kill full tanked freighters next? You'll find there is only 3-4 groups that actually field enough pilots to kill proper tanked freighters with only cats. Go play WoW if you want an always safe game. Look Carebear, it is the lack of risk to the ganker that is the problem. There is no profit to be made in hunting them. Now I know you don't want the possibility of someone ganking you for profit but really if you want a safe hi-sec maybe you should go play WOW. So you want to make it easier to haul with no risk because you don't like someone else's play style? Luckily, CCP have a different view. Not perfect always, but at least they acknowledge the value that tanking brings to the game and seem comfortable with the current level of risk that banking brings to hauling. No I want to make it more profitable and therefore more likely to gank gankers. At the moment they use bumping so they can hide until there kill is positioned then they attack in ships that you will get bugger all if you gank. If they had to use cruisers fitted out for damage with a limited time frame on bumping they would have to be out in the open more and a lot more profitable to gank. At the moment they are more protected than those they are ganking, able to hide in stations until the kill is blocked. So no having to be out in the open and no real isk for people hunting criminals. Ganking is a necessary part of EvE but it is too safe for them atm.
Not by the weight of your posting history you don't. You seem to just hate their play style and want the infinite loop of 'just one more nerf' until there is no ganking left in the game. That's the clear impression that comes through all your posts.
Thankfully though, that will never happen. So I guess the constant derailing of threads will continue, as borish as it is.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.05 04:07:27 -
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Steffles wrote:Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:Steffles wrote:What I think would make things more even is the following:
Utilizing the same code as jump fatigue:
Suicide gank - 15 minutes suspect - 6 hour timer
Suicide gank in that 6 hour timer - 30 minute suspect - 12 hour timer
Suicide gank in that 12 hour timer - 1 hour suspect - 24 hour timer
and so on and so on...
Um, most gankers are already perma free to shoot. Yeah, no they're not. Most gankers are not outlaws. It costs almost nothing to buy a few tags after a gank and repair your status.
I can appreciate you posting on a different character and even on IZ, I have always tried to respond to you as I would anyone else n the forum (sometimes I fail, because I'm a bit stupid at times).
So, just as I would with anyone, what's the basis for concluding that most aren't outlaw?
Looking at the purely highsec based gankers like CODE. for example, Eve Who shows the average sec status to very much be outlaw:
https://evewho.com/alli/CODE.
That's 466 members of the most active ganking corp in the game with an average sec status of -5.9
Where are you drawing the conclusion that most gankers are repairing their sec status with tags from?
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.05 06:35:23 -
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Steffles wrote:Its their inactive -5's and lower that are skewing that into the outlaw zone. Look up their active players with ganks recently and check that again.
Ok, so as a first pass, the top 10 most active members of CODE. in the last 7 days:
http://puu.sh/s74HF/2e72dcb7cb.jpg
Checking the sec status on Eve Who for those most active chartacters:
Winnie Po0h: -10.0
Liek DarZ: -10.0
Ralliana: -10.0
Keraina Talie-Kuo: -10.0
Marina Gankalot: -10.0
KoHfeTHbIu TpoLLb: -10.0
Plasma Deat: -10.0
Kibbera: -10.0
Krominal: -10.0
Carebears' Nightmare: -10.0
That doesn't in any way show what you are claiming to be true.
I'll happily keep looking, but so far every bit of information I have looked at (includng kill history for the last 30 days and top 50 most active members of CODE.), shows that what you are claiming is opposite of the truth.
So maybe you are looking at different data and if so, what?
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.07 11:03:23 -
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xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:is this thread about improving the game for new people or vets?
At this point it's just about whinging and whining because some people don't like the way other people play.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.08 07:59:44 -
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Galaxy Duck wrote:http://puu.sh/s9UBy/2673d91913.jpg
^ Pajedas finally took the hint!
Victory for the New Order!
Well to be fair to him, he seems to have his priorities in order somewhat:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=498976&find=unread
While I don't agree with his philosophy for the game, I certainly can't fault him for deciding that family is more important at the moment.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.08 08:16:54 -
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Ima Wreckyou wrote:Calling other turds and and at the same time complaining the forums are septic really shows what the actual problem is here.
+1
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.08 12:29:29 -
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Steffles wrote:A real EvE player is somebody that undocks in a non-newb ship and fights other players, or undocks in a battleship or a barge. Real EvE players risk assets.
Which begs the question, why do you scream in favour of carebears so much if you don't even consider them to be real EvE players?
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.08 20:10:28 -
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Steffles wrote:...Snuff definitely gank in highsec so I'd say if the shoe fits.
You know they are a lowsec entity right?
Where are you getting this from that they definitely gank in highsec?
I know asking for evidence for what you say just leads to being ignored, but I'm still optimistic that one day you'll be able to provide it.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.08 22:02:46 -
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Raca Pyrrea wrote:Azazel Shardani wrote:Valkyrie Harkonnen wrote:
I know that griefing is allowed but i believe when devs created the wardec system their intention wasn't giving free kills to corps against others for self amusement.
Actually that is exactly why they did it. The intention was to flush out carebears from highsec in order to force them to play the game the way it was intended. You know there is a more efficient way to "flush out carebears", just make everything null-sec and be done with it. On the other hand they went through a lot of effort to to those 1.0, 0.9 , 0.4, 0.1, -1 ... thingies in each system if they had different intentions.
Sure they went through effort to design different areas of space. That doesn't mean that the earlier claim about wardec intentions is correct.
The last time wardecs were changed was in 2012. The devblog makes it clear that a career path for mercs was absolutely one of the game design aims at the time:
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/changes-to-war-mechanics/
Increasing the use of wardecs over what it previously was, is also mentioned.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.13 09:52:02 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:Amazing, the same people who argue for the safety of gankers are the same people who argue against a more PvE based server.
I've never seen anyone argue for the safety of gankers.
As to another PvE focused server, thankfully CCP are who they are and those sort of suggestions will never happen.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.13 10:07:45 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Amazing, the same people who argue for the safety of gankers are the same people who argue against a more PvE based server. I've never seen anyone argue for the safety of gankers. As to another PvE focused server, thankfully CCP are who they are and those sort of suggestions will never happen.  Then maybe you should read this thread. It is full of statements for why gankers need to be kept safe from those who would hunt them.
Quote one.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.13 10:33:14 -
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Mark Marconi wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Mark Marconi wrote:Amazing, the same people who argue for the safety of gankers are the same people who argue against a more PvE based server. I've never seen anyone argue for the safety of gankers. As to another PvE focused server, thankfully CCP are who they are and those sort of suggestions will never happen. Then maybe you should read this thread. It is full of statements for why gankers need to be kept safe from those who would hunt them. Quote one. and back to labradoodles. Not sure why I bother. General Discussion should be renamed as "Children who scream about having their toy taken away."
No one is screaming here. You've made a claim you can either prove, or you can't.
It's really quite simple.
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Scipio Artelius
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Posted - 2016.11.14 00:15:27 -
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Ilany wrote:... the only people who stick around seem to be (a) 'carebears' who have set constructive/creative objectives for themselves, and (b) sociopaths - as evidenced by many of the responses in this thread.
I feel like we all need to group hug after this.
We're not all sociopaths. Some of us are mass murderers, rapists, Hitler apologists and just really mean people too.
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